Tapes

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Tapes

Postby auldyin » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:22 pm

Hi,
I'm in the process of digitising several hundred tapes, many of which were recorded from vinyl.
Should I set up Wave Corrector to process them as them as tapes or vinyl when converting to waves?

If any of you guys have lots of experience in this process as a whole, your help would be most valuable

Thanks,
auldyin
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Postby citguy » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:44 am

Hi Auldyin. I have wondered about also and would appreciate Derek's comments. My take would be to do things in this order but I could be completely wrong. Do not filter when loading the files. Normalize first then test and apply minimal hiss filter to get rid of "tape movement". Then run any click detection you feel is necessary. I sometimes use a combination of hiss filter and treble cut to take care of hiss rather than using a high hiss filter setting. It seems to affect the content less. I then set my fade in and fade out for individual tracks. My experience has been, if you normalize after filtering you bring the hiss livel back up with the content.
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Postby Derek » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:42 am

citguy wrote:Normalize first then test and apply minimal hiss filter to get rid of "tape movement". Then run any click detection you feel is necessary.

No this is definitely not advisable. :(

It is important to do click correction before. hiss filtering. This is because the hiss filter will take the 'edge' off clicks and make them much more difficult to detect.

If the vinyl recording has been transferred via tape then the program will already be struggling to detect the clicks. If you still have the original vinyl discs you will get a much better result if you re-record them, leaving out the tape stage all together.

I sometimes use a combination of hiss filter and treble cut to take care of hiss rather than using a high hiss filter setting.

Yes, this is good advice, particularly if the original source is vinyl. The hiss filter should be used as sparingly as possible as it can generate artefacts. If you find that you do have artefacts, you should check that the 'noise profile' is suitable and adjust it if necessary.

My experience has been, if you normalize after filtering you bring the hiss livel back up with the content.

It shouldn't really matter whether you normalise before or after filtering. The filters work on 'relative' levels rather than 'absolute'. Of course if you have a quiet recording that becomes louder after normalisation then the hiss will be amplified along with the music. But relatively speaking there should be no difference.

Note, it's quite important to normalise after click filtering. This is because a very large click would mis-calibrate the normalisation function.[/b]
Derek Higgins
Wave Corrector Developer
http://www.wavecor.co.uk
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Postby auldyin » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:19 pm

Thanks for replies.
Can we talk numbers here, just as a starting point.

What settings for hiss filter:
8dB, 14dB, 20dB

What settings for treble:
-12dB, -8dB, -4dB,

Thanks,
auldyin
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Postby adaywayne » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:40 pm

I usually just treat tapes I made from LPs(assuming I do not have the original LPs) as if they were LPs. I think the first question to ask is "is the Tape hiss really audible above the music?" I find that, esecially if I have used good quality tape, a good tape-deck, and Dolby noise reduction, I cannot hear any hiss (at the beginning of the tape for eample, before the music starts) unless I really turn the volume up way beyond any normal level.

Of course, my ears are 70-years old. Others may hear things that I can't!
Arnie
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Postby auldyin » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:46 pm

My ears are 61 years old and not all that great (lots of miss spent years playing in bands and listening to loud music I'm afraid)

However, I am aware of some tape hiss in quiet passages, mainly with violin(?) and female vocalists. At one stage I thought I was becoming "kind of allergic" to treble frequencies but have found that this is not the case.

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Postby citguy » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:54 pm

I also suffer from "musicians ear" so if I can hear hiss at the beginning of a "boundry audition" I know it's there. :) I test the hiss filter a lot before choosing a setting. The first two settings are about as far as I usually go. Same with treble cut. When testing I focus on the recorded material more than the hiss and when it begins to degrade I back off one setting. Of course the kind of hiss is important. A 78 with lots of surface noise is much different than an old cassette with background hiss.
Stan
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Postby adaywayne » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:03 pm

citguy wrote:I also suffer from "musicians ear" so if I can hear hiss at the beginning of a "boundry audition" I know it's there. :) I test the hiss filter a lot before choosing a setting. The first two settings are about as far as I usually go. Same with treble cut. When testing I focus on the recorded material more than the hiss and when it begins to degrade I back off one setting. Of course the kind of hiss is important. A 78 with lots of surface noise is much different than an old cassette with background hiss.
Stan


Re the 78 surface noise (mostly due to oxidation of the shellac surface) I don't think anyone has come up with a completely satisfactory solution to that. The late John R.T. Davis accomplished some miracles with old jazz records, but I believe that was by treating the 78 itself, not doing anything in the digital domain.
Arnie
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