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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:06 pm
by lltunes
i have many songs on my HD ... some downloaded from internet, some copied from my own cds, some copied from lps and some copied from cassette tapes.

i want to select songs and burn them to cds to play on our stereo.

is there a way i can pick and choose various songs and have them play at same or similar sound levels....

equalize or normalize. is there a difference between those terms?

some of them are quite loud and others are very low.

i know that one can BUY musicmatch jukebox and it will do this but if WAVECOR will do it, that would be GREAT.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm
by citguy
Use the wave form menu "normalize". It will scan your track or tracks and tell you what the maximum signal is, show you that position on the screen, and offer to normalize all tracks to a default level or one of your choosing.

One caveat is if you have a softer track mixed in with your active tracks it will also be brought up to the maximum level but the dynamic range will remain in tact.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:58 pm
by lltunes
many thanks. i shall have to try it out a few times.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:21 pm
by citguy
Hi again. I may have misspoke. If you have a group of tracks active and choose to normalize. WC will find the loudest signal in that group of tracks and determine how much to increase the signal to bring that particular track up to the default level which I believe is -1 decibel. The other active tracks will only be normalized by that same amount. To bring every track up to "maximum" level I believe you would have to process each track separately. I am not positive about this so others may want to contribute.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:35 pm
by Glenn
If you're planning to burn these, your burner software likely has the utility, and is the best choice for that purpose, particularly if your downloaded files are compressed.

Even if you do the peak normalization offered in wavcor or other apps, you may find the levels are still not matched. This is because in addition to peak leveling, the sound levels need to be adjusted for average levels, also known as rms levels. The rms level to peak level ratio is known in the recording industry as "crest factor" (cf) and is largely what determines the perceived volume of the music.

Many recordings, particularly modern pop recordings sound loud because they have a low cf. Older recordings, and also many classical recordings, have a high cf because music in nature sounds this way. If you wish to match perceived volume levels you must match the cf of the different tracks in the mix. Unfortunately, this is not easy to do.

I think it would be a first if Derek could incorporate this into wavcor, particularly as a batch process, but I think it's beyond the scope of what he's trying to offer. I know of one programme, now defunct, that could do this by inputting the desired rms level, but that's not going to help you now.

In the meantime, Audacity has a dynamics compressor that works well enough to achieve this end, but I don't believe the plugin has batch capability - I could be wrong. If it doesn't, you will have to process the tracks individually though trial and error. Once you've matched the cf among all the tracks , you can then use the burning software to perform the peak normalization.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:23 pm
by lltunes
stan and glen
before i even had a chance to try this out you two posted messages.

yes, i thought it sounded a little too easy.

tho i will have a look at Audacity...which i also have on my computer.

glen...what is the name of this defunct program that did do this normalizing...i have a lot of old programs hanging around and i just may have a copy of it.

also i have a friend who seems to hoard all these types of things and he may have it a copy.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:26 pm
by Glenn
The program was AudioTools, by Andrew Fish. It was quite buggy and had a lot of useless filters, but the PEQ and RMS normalizer, when used together were quite powerful for "remastering" a dull recording. The GUI was simple enough: One only had to stack the desired filters on top of each other in a dialog box, and configure each one. The RMS normalizer was as simple as inputting a number, say -5db, save the filter macro and hit the record button.

Versions beyond 4.7 never ran properly on my win98 machine. I also used it for recording long after I began using WC because it had numeric peak hold meters, but when Derek installed them in wavcor, I stopped using AT altogether.

Really not a bad program, but I guess Andrew moved on in search of different horizons. Judging by AT's buggy behaviour, I'd say coding was not his natural calling.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:59 pm
by lltunes
thanks glenn
i don't have it but i will check with my friend.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:07 am
by Glenn
lltunes, here's a link you'll find interesting:



PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:42 pm
by lltunes
thanks glenn....i did find it interesting....

i guess i really need to learn more about audio editing and what all the different terms mean.