Page 1 of 1

Autoscan settings-restore defaults button

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:16 pm
by deadpoirotsketch
OS=XP + SP1 (SP2 removed because it screwed up ICS and DHCP on my LAN)

I have compared 3.2beta against v3.1 both installed on same PC.

Autoscan option|Restore Defaults button does not restore the default track detection threshold setting in 3.2beta (for me anyway). It works OK in 3.1. And in case you wondered I did check by using extreme settings as of course there would be no change if I was already at the default setting. (Smile)

RE: future developments

I have wondered if there would be any benefit from decreasing the granularity of the autoscan options - i.e a ten point range rather than five point range. Alternatively perhaps wave corrector could have an option to pre-scan a wav file and come up with a suggested sensitivity setting as a starting level, rather than using a fixed autoscan option. This could possibly benefit non-technical or non-perfectionists who might otherwise assume that the default setting was a one-size-fits-all recommendation. Having wave corrector automatically recommend and be able to implement varying autoscan settings on a per-track or per region basis, or even on a user-entered "music-type" setting would probably be asking for far too much.

I would like to experiment with the advanced settings but I don't really understand their operation and implications. It would be nice if the final documentation could explain, and maybe there could be a worked-example wav, ape or mp3 file with associated documentation downloadable from the wavecor.co.uk website.

Given the way wave corrector seems to work this next may not be possible. In extremis it would be nice to be able to discard wave corrector changes in a selected block covering a small region at high magnification and opt to try to draw in a correction with mouse or pen/tablet.

I make use of the feature of wc where a marked block gets skipped from normal track playback to help hunt down intractable and hard to find defects. I would find it useful to be able to hold down a key that would prevent a marked block being accidentally lost by an errant mouse click when I am switching rapidly between playback starting before the block by clicking at the desired start point with the play track option pre-selected, and switching back and forth to attempts to relocate or resize the block during that playback in order to minimise its size most effectively. This would be when I have decided that only a cut and splice will fix a problem. (I tend to use this approach when wc misses a click or defect even on extreme rescan, and even visual inspection fails to precisely locate or identify the fault in the waveform). It is frustrating to have marked block disappear just when you have nearly got it right. (If this doesn't happen to other people then maybe I work differently to everyone else or my mouse needs replacing! (Smile).

I think the "Save session" option is great. For storage space reasons I tend to delete the original wav file when I have wc processed it and broken and saved the file into constituent tracks. I archive the tracks as ape files to DVDR. It would be really useful to me to have wave corrector able to save mini "session" files relating to changes made to the waveform of each track cut out of the original large wave file and saved from wave corrector. This would be useful because if after future listening I decide I got the corrections wrong or missed something that needs correction I could restore the archived ape file as a wave track and then restore that wav file into wave corrector using the associated mini session file and start from where I left off rather than having to start all over again on that particular track. This would be a definite benefit if one has "over-processed" a track but does not want to start all over again with a clean wav file recording, instead just undo or lessen manual corrections already made.

Of course I could just archive the whole wave file as an ape file along with the full session file, but for me this means duplicating the ape archived track content I cut out of the original wav. I like having the separated tracks because I can play them back on demand in Winamp, and also tag them with Monkey's Audio track, title, album, year, encoding etc information. Mini or "track by track" session files for the corresponding wav tracks would be very small and could be archived to DVDR alongside the ape tracks.

dvg

Re: Autoscan settings-restore defaults button

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:18 pm
by Derek
deadpoirotsketch wrote:OS=XP + SP1 (SP2 removed because it screwed up ICS and DHCP on my LAN)

I have compared 3.2beta against v3.1 both installed on same PC.

Autoscan option|Restore Defaults button does not restore the default track detection threshold setting in 3.2beta (for me anyway). It works OK in 3.1. And in case you wondered I did check by using extreme settings as of course there would be no change if I was already at the default setting. (Smile)


Yes, there was this problem in the early beta. The latest beta no longer has a track detection threshold so this is now moot.


RE: future developments

I have wondered if there would be any benefit from decreasing the granularity of the autoscan options - i.e a ten point range rather than five point range. Alternatively perhaps wave corrector could have an option to pre-scan a wav file and come up with a suggested sensitivity setting as a starting level, rather than using a fixed autoscan option. This could possibly benefit non-technical or non-perfectionists who might otherwise assume that the default setting was a one-size-fits-all recommendation. Having wave corrector automatically recommend and be able to implement varying autoscan settings on a per-track or per region basis, or even on a user-entered "music-type" setting would probably be asking for far too much.


Yes, this is an interesting suggestion although I'm not sure how it would be implemented. Unfortunately, click discrimination is very difficult so a fair amount of user intervention is necessary to get ideal results. It is really for this reason that there are only five steps on the threshold setting. While it would be nice to think that an intermediate step, say between 2 and 3, would capture the clicks missed at 2 while rejecting the false positives found at 3. However, in practice, it is just as likely to be vice versa!

The advanced options are an attempt to give the user greater control and do, in effect provide a range of intermediate steps. This will be explained more fully in the final documentation. They're provided mainly for the 'tinkerers' and basically they are to help avoid the problem of 'false positives'. The three settings, when moved off their default '0' settings, reduce the number of clicks detected.

'AGC' turns down the sensitivity as the music gets louder. At low volumes clicks are detected normally, but as the volume increases, they become progressively less likely to be detected.

'Noise Discriminator' analyses the spectrum of the click and rejects or accepts it depending on the noise characteristics of the spectrum.

'Magnitude' simply gives you the opportunity to reject clicks below the magnitude you set. Most of the low magnitude clicks tend to be inaudible anyway so you can often get away with correcting only the higher magnitude clicks.


Given the way wave corrector seems to work this next may not be possible. In extremis it would be nice to be able to discard wave corrector changes in a selected block covering a small region at high magnification and opt to try to draw in a correction with mouse or pen/tablet.


Yes, a number of other users have also asked for this. As you intimate, it would be quite difficult to achieve, particularly because any manual changes would need to be incorporated somehow into the session file.


I make use of the feature of wc where a marked block gets skipped from normal track playback to help hunt down intractable and hard to find defects. I would find it useful to be able to hold down a key that would prevent a marked block being accidentally lost by an errant mouse click when I am switching rapidly between playback starting before the block by clicking at the desired start point with the play track option pre-selected, and switching back and forth to attempts to relocate or resize the block during that playback in order to minimise its size most effectively. This would be when I have decided that only a cut and splice will fix a problem. (I tend to use this approach when wc misses a click or defect even on extreme rescan, and even visual inspection fails to precisely locate or identify the fault in the waveform). It is frustrating to have marked block disappear just when you have nearly got it right. (If this doesn't happen to other people then maybe I work differently to everyone else or my mouse needs replacing! (Smile).


Yes, that should be easy to implement. I'll see what I can do.

I think the "Save session" option is great. For storage space reasons I tend to delete the original wav file when I have wc processed it and broken and saved the file into constituent tracks. I archive the tracks as ape files to DVDR. It would be really useful to me to have wave corrector able to save mini "session" files relating to changes made to the waveform of each track cut out of the original large wave file and saved from wave corrector. This would be useful because if after future listening I decide I got the corrections wrong or missed something that needs correction I could restore the archived ape file as a wave track and then restore that wav file into wave corrector using the associated mini session file and start from where I left off rather than having to start all over again on that particular track. This would be a definite benefit if one has "over-processed" a track but does not want to start all over again with a clean wav file recording, instead just undo or lessen manual corrections already made.


Unfortunately, this would not be possible. The session file needs to load an uncorrected wave file as its reference. As you individual track files are already corrected, they would be unusable by a session file. For example, the program would not be able to restore the original waveform if you deleted a group of corrections.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:25 pm
by Guest

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:53 pm
by Glenn
Quote:
I think the "Save session" option is great. For storage space reasons I tend to delete the original wav file when I have wc processed it and broken and saved the file into constituent tracks. I archive the tracks as ape files to DVDR. It would be really useful to me to have wave corrector able to save mini "session" files relating to changes made to the waveform of each track cut out of the original large wave file and saved from wave corrector. This would be useful because if after future listening I decide I got the corrections wrong or missed something that needs correction I could restore the archived ape file as a wave track and then restore that wav file into wave corrector using the associated mini session file and start from where I left off rather than having to start all over again on that particular track. This would be a definite benefit if one has "over-processed" a track but does not want to start all over again with a clean wav file recording, instead just undo or lessen manual corrections already made.


Unfortunately, this would not be possible. The session file needs to load an uncorrected wave file as its reference. As you individual track files are already corrected, they would be unusable by a session file. For example, the program would not be able to restore the original waveform if you deleted a group of corrections.

It is possible to save track boundaries as a separate session. This is what I do. However, since the cleaned file has a different name than the original wavfile, it becomes necessary to play a file name game so the reprocessed file can be split. It would be much more convenient if a track boundary session could be imported into an already open file. I realize this might cause problems for some people, but since the track boundaries are not sample sensitive it should work with any file with similar attributes. Alternately, the ability to rename the source file in a session might work. I tried this with notepad one time but of course it didn't work. Just something I should have put in the wish list long ago. :D
Glenn